Wednesday

Dear Tempted

Michael66 has left a new comment on your post "Fathers' Rights Protect Perpetrators and Undermine...":
You fail to acknowledge that some women are vicious, malicious and liars, and do make false allegations for their own gain. These (few I hope) are the real enemies of the genuinely abused woman. My overwhelming sense of injustice has tempted me to join a fathers rights group. Who else will speak for me? The family courts? Obviously not! The current system is far too biased against the man or father.
However I have no wish to undermine the protection afforded to genuine victims of domestic abuse, and acknowledge many points you have made.
The most inocent victims in domestic conflict are the children, not the parents, and many things called for by FR groups are valid, to redress some of the injustices, without endangering mothers and children.
There is far too much conflict and emotive language used by opposing groups here.
Constructive dialogue is needed.
Dear Michael,

Thanks for stopping by. I don't choose to acknowledge it because I feel that anyone that deals with humankind is aware of that fact, while at the same time, the preference that you give for stating that point FIRST, is often a strategy used to shift the focus. Men are also "vicious, malicious and liars, and do make false allegations for their own gain." So what does that mean?

And it is those types of people that ruin protections for all victims of any crime. And they also are the cause of many a person still being free of the crimes that they did indeed commit.

Michael, I couldn't even fathom that the injustice that exists is real, just 2 years ago. But when I went back and read the history of the women's movement, I recognize that this opposition is the same as it was many decades ago. The oppression takes on new forms by those [men] who are threatened by their perceived loss of power.

For you to join a fathers' rights groups....think carefully. Some are indeed decent groups, promoting good parenting, positive relationships....they are part of building community, not exclusivity because they recognize that they rights of women are still being trampled upon. But, Michael, it is much easier to fall prey to other fathers' groups who are very welcoming, very promising, very vocal and active...and you get in and you find out that they call all women liars, bitches, cunts, and whores, that their actions are reminiscent of hate group activity. You will see many White supremacy parallels. Sure, they will talk about equal this and equal that, they will recruit women and yatta, yatta....but everyone, including innocent men, are pawns in their game. And their game, is much bigger than any single person could imagine.

Of course the family courts won't speak for you. They speak for job security and money.

Explain to me how the current system is "too far biased against the father or man." This statement is uttered repeatedly with an unclear backdrop. All kinds of men use this statement, from abusers and convicts, to men who are really getting the boot for no reason.

Regarding this statement,
The most inocent victims in domestic conflict are the children
Could you possible agree that there are no "most innocent" victims and that that type of qualifier would leave out any victim of violence that you don't see fit to being a victim? A victim is a victim is a victim. Violence is unacceptable. Violence where there are power differences is fatal. The innocent victims are those that don't stand a chance...the less powerful.
many things called for by FR groups are valid, to redress some of the injustices, without endangering mothers and children
Valid is one thing, but the redress is often at a surface level, Michael. Superficial. Lip service...because indeed the things that FR groups are livid about, are those things causing the most harm to women and children.

What is being done about all these murders and murder-suicides, Michael? Is joint custody and the elimination of child support going to keep men from murdering?

Constructive dialogue is needed, but can only be done when those men realize how they benefit from our patriarchal structure. Men must acknowledge their privileges and understand how it affects those further down the hierarchy. Then, men can work with women to come up with solutions that benefit everyone. There are groups doing this, one that comes to mind is Men Can Stop Rape. Look for pro-feminist men's groups, Michael. Read some stuff on xyonline.net with an open mind.

The thing that I have noticed is that when confronted with their privileges, people quickly reject the information being presented. Example, some White people are very quick to dismiss the arguments and literature of persons of color. Read, listen, understand. We are all humankind.

2 advocates for peace:

Michael66 said...

Dear ? Randi?

Thanks very much for your considered reply.
Some people are 'bad' I believe it's transgender, and object to seemingly one sided articles that use the word men, where the word people should be used. I was not intentionaly shifting focus, I considered I was balancing focus?
You finish by saying we are all humanity. EXACTLY MY POINT. but in some places of your reply say men men men! Maybe you consider it valid to support your argument. I found it personally offensive. That's why I commented. My true feeling and opinion. Not a political statement. No hidden agenda.

I object to anything divisive, gender, race, class, etc. Divisions lead to conflict and can lead to hatred. I try to focus on common objectives and similarities.
So you can see why PRO FEMINIST mens group doesn't sound too appealing to me either, but obviously better than anti feminist!! I'll look with open mind anyway as you suggest. NB! I've read your articles.

I see the words power and control again, relatively new to me! An alien concept to bring to a relationship? However I don't think it's power and control per se, it's the ABUSE of power and control by ANYONE that's the problem. Also I conceed having certain aspects of power and control can in themselves be abusive!
Control is a key word. Lack of control over too many aspects of ones life does leed to stress. Having all control taken away unjustly, leads to stress can lead to anxiety problems, can lead to depression, can lead to mental instability. Is it these unfortunate men AND women that kill themselves and the people they profess to love? Women do kill their children as well.
I must state now that it's the most sickening and horrifying thing to think about.
Your reply jumps around a bit, you lay it on a bit thick, and use some emotive arguments (not neccessary)but enough reasonable and balanced comments for me to keep reading. You acknowledge some men are innocent victims. Thankyou.

Most innocent? I'm refering to my circumstance and prejudice which colours my judgement currently. My ex will not allow our children to see me their father. (untill I agree to her terms!)I'm an adult, I know what's happening. Our girls age 5 and 8 do not.
Sorry if I havn't answered fully. I'll review it later. Have other unpleasant things to do (tax returns)
Hope you have other 'nice' distractions from this bitter subject.

Regards

Michael.

Rj said...

i'm working on my response, Michael..I'm low on energy right now...but you remain salient.